Tuesday, October 10, 2023

TheList 6609


The List 6609     TGB

To All,

Good Tuesday Afternoon October 10, 2023

Here are a couple of stories that I think most of you will enjoy. Some of you may have seen some of them already.

Regards

Skip

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Starting off with a life lesson from Barrel

 

https://youtu.be/dhIkLozpN6o?si=1RTNaeLpszZaIkMr

 

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Thanks to Dave via YP and Dr.Rich

 

From the Crusadernet:  Dave "Fireball" Johnson's story.

 

Talk about all the cards stacked against a first tour nugget Crusader pilot!

1.  Terrible maintenance seems common.  His Crusader in this story is a POS!

2.  The "Shitty Shang" seems to deserve that nickname, with all sorts of backup systems that might have helped being simultaneously tits up.

3.  He must have gone to Sunday School to have survived this. GB him.

4.  Thank Grong I never had a really bad mtc problem in my 1200 hours in the Scoot.  The Independence, CVA-62, had functional systems most of my two long and many short cruises.  As soon as I cleaned up after a night cat shot, I started thinking about the approach.  I never loved nights, but I stayed focused and that kept me off the blunt end of the boat..

5.  In my 1200 Crusader hours, The Goat God had to work overtime on me.

YP

[Don't Stop Me if You've Heard This]

 

The Sermon On The Ramp

 

A few guys have asked why I haven't added my tale to the sea stories. Here it is, in a nutshell: I screwed up a night approach, blew up my F-8 on the ramp, flopped in the water, and was picked up by a tin can. I'm not particularly proud of wrecking a machine I loved to fly. By rights I should have been fishfood; that I wasn't, I firmly believe is because there is a God, who employs guardian angels (those assigned to nugget Crusader pilots really racked up the overtime), and who listens to those little pre-cat prayers. Read on; count the screw ups, count the dang-nears, then you decide. It sure as heck wasn't skill on my part that cheated the fishies.

 

Off the cat, AOA dropped to zero. Pretty soon, it came back on, seemed to work o.k. Suggested to my fearless leader that we join up before marshal for an a/s-AOA check, then we went on about our business and both forgot about it.

 

When I popped the boards leaving marshal, it went to zero again, then came back on. Too late to bother anybody now, so carry on. Dirty up, donut & a/s don't match for fuel load a/s is a few knots slow, but AOA was boresighted just before launch & sister squadron had recently had a couple bad a/s indicators, so I bet AOA is more correct. APC check - - APC doesn't engage. O.k., manual pass. Sure looks dark out there; oops, wing lites have gone out. Well, turn on the rotator and crack the probe door so the probe light comes on, maybe paddles can still see me o.k. Call the ball, manual, AOA seems to be responding o.k., I'm actually holding a donut most of the time. Paddles, however, sees only a "fast" approach lite the entire approach. The rotator and probe light don't give very good clues, so paddles checks the SPN-12 (approach speed radar) readout. SPN-12 is down. Paddles now has no way to judge distance, glide path or attitude (which is directly related to AOA, and therefore a/s), and thinks I'm fast as a bat.

 

Going a little high in close, make a correction apparently right at the burble. Ball is coming down, no dropping down, cob it & rotate, this ain't good, hit burner! Paddles first clue about how close the aircraft was, was when I appeared in the floodlights, low and nose high, and sinking - still showing a "fast" approach lite. The burner lit just as the wheels hit the rounddown and broke the airplane in half. Fuel tanks erupted, the burner lit the fuel, and the guys who were on the roof told me it was the most glorious explosion they had ever seen. The whole works continued up the angle, with the aft half doing a somersault in the fireball.

 

My brain may have been a bit scrambled from the impact, but something told me that it was too quiet in there, and too bright outside, and besides you shouldn't be going sideways across the #4 wire, you should leave now. Wait, sit up straight before you pull the curtain. Oops, cant't get it over my helmet now, I'll duck a little then straighten up when it clears the helmet, there, now pull hard. I didn't feel a thing, but heard this loud bang and saw a bright flash below so figured the seat must have fired. Quick, grab and pull the toggles on the MKIII-C. I was pulling them when I heard another loud "crack" and felt a real jolt that yanked my hands off the toggles. Then, darkness.

 

The remnents had left the angle, rolled left and entered the water inverted. Apparently the seat fired at 90 degrees of bank or so, because no one saw the canopy or seat leave (and there was no PLAT tape to review because that was down too). The jolt was the seat hitting the water, the "crack" was the drogue gun firing. One of the CO2 cartridges had been activated, so one cell of the MKIII inflated. Pretty soon I regained some level of consciousness, and noticed this odd view of the ship, getting smaller and appearing and disappearing behind waves. Then I saw this wing nearby, so I grabbed on to it. Dang, cut my hand in the the gap between the outer wing panel and main panel droops. What's all that yelling about? There's another ship. There's a horse collar. Maybe I'll grab that and let go of this wing. Now they're trying to lift me up but I can't hang on anymore. When I fell back in, I went under for a while, sucking in a lot of sea water and suddenly becoming aware that HEY MAN I'M DROWNING HERE. Shriek a bunch, grab that horsecollar again and go into lock mode. They had been yelling at me to grab the horsecollar, because they could see that the wing was sinking on the chute, which the drogue gun had yanked out. It sank just as they pulled me clear. On the second attempt to hoist me aboard, Ens. Bob Hendricks went over the side to hold my head out of the water, SN Snodgrass (duty swimmer) got me into the horsecollar again, and when nobody could get the chute released, the XO, LCDR Furey, got a knife, climbed down the cargo net (which was hung over the side for just such events) and cut the shroud lines. It still took 5 men to haul me up, because the vent hose to the poopy suit had ripped out instead of disconnecting on ejection, so the poopy suit was full of water.

 

When I was laid out on a wardroom table and my flight gear was being cut off with knives and scissors, it finally dawned on me what had happened. I got pretty upset, because there were a lot of men - including my Line Division plane captains - on the flight deck where I had strewn flying and flaming debris. I insisted that they radio the carrier to see if anyone on the roof had been injured; when the word came back that no one had, I relaxed... and promptly passed out again.

 

The scariest part of the whole deal was when the helo guys picked me up from the tincan the next morning. They trussed me up like a turkey in this wire basket stretcher, hoisted me to the hovering helo, and after pulling the thing just halfway into the helo's cabin, went roaring off to the Shang. I was sure I was going to slide out and go "bloop". So,instead of becoming Charlie the Tuna's revenge, I became "Fireball".

 

At the time, I was sure that my Naval Aviatin' days were over. Stolly Stollenwerck was my Skipper, Pete Easterling XO. Stolly and Pete came to sick bay to hear my side of the tale. I can hear Stolly to this day: "Well, Dave, are you going to stay with us?". I couldn't believe it; I have a choice???. I said "Yes sir, if you'll let me." He said,"Oh, sure, Dave", in that fatherly manner of his.

 

As a sidebar, after recuperating for about 30 days, my first flite after getting my "up chit" had an inauspicious beginning. First a/c went down on start, resked for next launch, down again with hydraulic leak, resked as spare for next launch, & the spare was made a "go" bird. On the cat, shooter touched the deck & nothing happened; suspended, tried again - and again -and again. It finally fired on the 5th. try. By that time I had developed a morbid curiousity is this thing going to work??? and was mentally prepared to climb out in the water on the pointy end, but I dang sure wasn't going to say "no" and have to go thru those butterflies for yet another launch. Once the cat fired, it was just like old times, no more than usual jitters on the trap. This was my nugget cruise, and I didn't even have 50 total traps. By the time I left VF-13, I had over 300 more traps on the Shang, but didn't enjoy any of the night ones. Not even a little bit. Daytime, tho, was a blast. Something that surprised me was that I even enjoyed day traps more, thought they were great sport. But not nites.

 

For what its worth, I have never had bad dreams or nightmares or anything like that. I just disliked night traps more intensely. There were a lot of factors in my decision to leave the Navy after one tour, but this was the biggest one. I had too much fun with the airplane, and didn't use my head enough. I could read the handwriting on the wall it said "You've been warned enough times". Asking for shore duty, or VP, or somesuch, just wasn't in the cards. You either have a tailhook, or you're dogmeat. Or a civilian with good memories.

 

Dave Johnson

Long ago

 

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Thanks to the Bear

SKY SNIPER

This article was first published in May 1943, American Rifleman.

By Lt. Stuart D. Ludlum, USNR

American Rifleman Archives: Sky Sniper | An Official Journal Of The NRA 10/8/23, 3:04 AM

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/american-rifleman-archives-sky-sniper/?utm_source=newsletter Page 2 of 9

 

"Don't shoot at the quail... Shoot where he's going to be when the shot gets there." Though

the shotgun's recoil rattled his teeth and rocked him on his heels. Little Jimmy Thach

learned to swing smoothly and to shoot without flinching. He learned lead and follow

through so that he could put a single .22 bullet out in front "where the rabbit

is going to be" and send it rolling into a pie pan. Whether wing shooting or depending on

one slug to do the work of 2 hatful, Jim Thach put a premium on marksmanship.

Six Grumman Wildcats roar o! the flight deck, wheel into the sky and climb like express

elevators. Lt. Commander John Smith (Jim) Thach, now Skipper of Fighter Three, and his

wingman spot a Jap four engine patrol plane. He starts his run. It's like the last rapid fire

string in the National Match Course ... only the target's shooting back. Smooth speed ...

rhythm ... every maneuver sheer velvet ... no jerking ... no flinching. Working together in

perfect coordination, his hands and feet line up his ringsight on the target and then move it

out front. The "pipper" (the dot in the middle of the ringsight) is leading perfectly. He

presses the trigger and breaks away. A few brief seconds and the smoking Jap plunges

into the sea.

Page 3 of 9

The Cover: A fighter plane is a super accurate automatic pistol; the

e!ective fighter pilot, a deadly marksman, as true of aim and quick on the

draw as an old time western gunman. With this rather new concept in mind,

we teamed up the cover illustration with our lead story, "Sky Sniper," and

appropriate for the Rifleman, we think. For here, among these fighter pilots,

are men who put a premium on marksmanship. The flier who can't shoot is

as useless as a shooter who can't fly. O"cial U.S. Navy Kodachrome

Thach's fighting teammates were high over the Lexington when she took

this direct hit. Smoke on the water marks the spots where their Jap victims

have crashed.

Minutes later, another two-plane section,

led by Lt. O. B. Stanley, shoots down

another patrol bomber.

Toward mid-afternoon, enemy planes are

reported. Two more fighter patrols hop o!

the carrier into the sky to intercept.

Here's the chance Fighter Three has been

waiting for ... Has Jimmy taught them well?

Are his sky-shooting skills sound? These

airborne marksmen have never been in

combat before .... They believe in Jimmy

Thatch and his shooting ideals, but, after

all, they're only ideas…

At 1630 (Navy for 4:30 p.m.) nine Mitsubishi

bombers streak for the carrier. This is it! All

those hours of attacks, and runs, and

marksmanship practice are now to be put

to the test. The flying shooters of Fighter

Three—like well-trained riflemen in their

first visit to Camp Perry—following the

detailed instructions of their coach,

resisting the excitement that could easily

upset their technique—smoothly swing

their three-ton flying guns into position.

They press the triggers. Five Jap bombers

crash into the sea. The other four release

their bombs far from their target, miss it by

nearly two miles, and head hell-bent for

home. One is blasted by the anti-aircraft

sharpshooters on the carrier. Three are

given "the treatment" and are confirmed. ...

One gets away.

A second flight of Jap bombers is detected coming in from the east. Only two fighters are

in position to intercept. They pile into the nine bombers and in the next few minutes one of

the great fights of all time takes place. It's history now, but there are angles for those who

Page 4 of 9

are interested in skillful marksmanship.

The guns of one plane jam. He has to leave and quick. The other makes his approach, and

many things race through his mind. Very little ammunition for such a big covey. A bomber

takes a lot of shooting to put it out ... you got to hit it where it hurts ... deep in the heart of

the X-ring. And you can't take too many chances when you are the last man between the

bandits and the carrier .... If they sink the carrier, where you going to land? Ever think of

that? So you've got to make every shot count without "expending" yourself.

Judge your range ... their speed ... start your run … bank smoothly ... everything's got to be

done smoothly ... can't black yourself out with a fast or jerky turn and expect to hold and

squeeze. Lead just right. ... Press! Smoke and flames say, "Pinwheel", and now the next one!

Working from back to front of the Vee, the pipper lines up just where it ought to be ... press

... smoke ... flames ... crazy spin into the sea. Next!! Climb for another run ... a short burst

this time .... Break away ... Next!

" ... Without hesitation, alone and unaided, he repeatedly attacked this enemy formation at

close range in the face of their intense combined machine gun and cannon fire, and ... by

his gallant and courageous action, his extremely skillful marksmanship, making the most of

every shot of his limited amount of ammunition, shot down fire enemy bombers and

severely damaged a sixth before they reached the bomb release point ... "

So reads the citation that went with Butch O'Hare's Congressional Medal of Honor.

Courage, shooting skill ... and sky sniping marksmanship, drilled into him by Jimmy Thach,

made O'Hare one of the world's most skillful flying fighters.

By the time those two patrols of Fighter Three were back on deck, Jim Thach's theories

had become a proven formula for sky killing with fixed guns.

When the score was tallied at the end of the day, the Japs had lost nineteen out of twenty

bombers sent into combat. That twentieth would have been a dead pigeon if they could

have followed it a little longer. But a single-seated fighter doesn't carry gasoline and

ammunition enough to chase the last bully home after cleaning up on the rest of his gang.

We lost two fighter planes and one pilot.

Fighter Three won its first brush with the Japs in the cornfields of Arkansas ... on the rifle

ranges and the hardwood ridges of the Mid-West. Uncle Sam owes a lot to the man who

taught his son to shoot where his target is going to be and not where it is when you pull

Page 5 of 9

the trigger, Jim Thach's dad did a lot more than give his son a taste for outdoor life … instill

in him a love for guns... and the thrill of hunting. He taught him to respect and aspire to kill

in marksmanship.

Born in Fordyce, Arkansas, in April, 1905, John Smith Thach entered the Naval Academy in

1923. After graduation in 1927—and a few weeks of flight instruction to find out if he took to

the air—he was ordered to the fleet for a tour of duty. He learned fleet operations and this

knowledge served him well in his later air battles. For when he was fighting his squadron

high above the ships,he knew pretty well what they were trying to do below.

In 1929 he was ordered to Pensacola for flight training, and his enthusiasm went into "high"

when it came to aerial gunnery. He hadn't lost his love for cracking moving targets, and

here it was at its best, shooting a flying target with a flying gun.

When a student o"cer is learning to fly, he wants those wings more than anything else on

earth or in the air. But once he wins them and is attached to a fighter squadron, he wants a

little painted "E" on his plane. This is the badge of an expert aerial marksman. Once Jim

was out with the Fleet as a Naval Aviator, it didn't take him long to win his "E". He soon

found that he couldn't flinch a plane and hit his X-ring any more than he could hit it when

he flinched with a rifle. On the other hand, when he swung smoothly, led and followed

through, his scores mounted.

"Skippers" of VF-3 (Jim Thach, foreground and Butch O'Hare) flying a two plane section in their Grumman Wildcats.

After various aviation assignments with fighter allied patrol squadrons, Jim found himself

Gunnery O"cer of Fighter Three ... which immediately won the Championship of the Fleet

in Marksmanship. A year before Pearl Harbor, Jim was made Skipper of the squadron, and

even though his men were the shooting champs, he was dissatisfied.

He wanted more time for training. He was developing fighting tactics that were based on

sound shooting techniques. He believed that a flier who couldn't shoot would be just as

useless to a fighting squadron as a shooter who couldn't fly. He, himself, was expert in both

and was working out a way to coordinate them (to blend them with team flying) and to

come out with a fighting formula that was 4-0, which in the Navy is perfection.

Everything seemed to conspire against him, however. "Bugs" arose in the planes and they

were grounded. When they were rarin' to go, the carrier was diverted to ferrying Army

bombers to the islands of the Pacific. In June, 1941, he did get thirty days at Pearl Harbor

with his squadron, and those thirty days, Saturdays and Sundays included, were spent in

the air, shooting. They got results.

Even before Fighter Three proved the e!ectiveness of Jim's methods by killing Japs

wholesale, the Navy began to take notice. He received a letter of commendation for

excellence in gunnery operations in 1939-1940: "For exceptional skill and technique in

aerial gunnery and bombing, e"cient and meticulous operation of the squadron gunnery

department; marked ability to train other pilots in fighting plane tactics and gunnery." It was

encouraging that the Navy recognized and appreciated the need for fliers who could

shoot. In his Navy Cross and Distinguished Service Medal citations, his skill as a marksman

is emphasized: " ... Through his courage and skill he shot down one enemy bomber and,

with the assistance of his teammates, shot down a second bomber."

" ... Pursuing till.' bold and fearless tactics of a great lighter and skillful airman, Lieutenant

Commander Thach led a division of his squadron on a mission providing protection for our

own attacking torpedo squadron. Facing intense antiaircraft fire, the squadron under his

command e"ciently attacked an overwhelming number of enemy Japanese fighters,

shooting down three of them."

A fighter plane is a super-accurate automatic pistol. It shoots with fixed guns. The air

pressure against the wings, at speeds between 300 and 400 miles an hour, holds the guns

and gives machine rest steadiness. Like a pistol compared with a long arm, it's highly

maneuverable.

You can aim it with one hand. Like the .41 Automatic, its bullets are the punchy kind. A burst

of concentrated fire from a Grumman Wildcat's "fifties" has a most satisfactory way of

messing things up—for the enemy—like slugging a clip of forty-fives into a can of tomatoes

Page 7 of 9

Jim Thach congratulates Butch O'Hare for shooting down five Jap bombers

in first day Thach's theories were put to test

—before point rationing.

If you load a fighting plane down with extra ammunition or fuel, armament or armor, or

other equipment, it's like hanging a big magazine or a heavy sight ramp or curvaceous

grips on a handgun. It loses its ability to gain altitude advantage quickly just as the pistol

loses its quick-draw, fast -pointing attributes. Fortunately, the United States Navy has long

recognized the principles of fighter combat and has given our fighter squadrons some

mighty handy flying guns that have proven themselves highly e!ective in a devastating sort

of way.

The seven Jap flags, painted on Jim Thach's plane, are convincing proof that he has

acquired the knack of knocking Japs out of the sky. But his skills are more far reaching, for

he possesses qualities of leadership and the ability to teach. He has taught his fighter

combat tactics to other Navy squadrons and is now supervising the making of training films

at the Walt Disney studios and at the Navy's gigantic training center in Jacksonville.

These films are being used to make lethal marksmen out of the thousands of pilots the

Navy is training every year. In any kind of shooting it is hard to say how much skill is due to

inherent ability and how much to teaching. O'Hare was a good rifle shot before he learned

to fly. But he and the other pilots of VF-3 (Fighting Squadron Three) give most credit to

Thach's shooting tactics.

Lieutenant Noel Gayler was another one of

Thach's sky snipers who did his Skipper

proud. Thach likes to tell about the time

they escorted dive and torpedo bombers

over the unexplored mountains of New

Guinea, one of the most hazardous flights

in Naval aviation. As they pulled their

heavy planes up into the thin air around

the tops of these amazingly high peaks, it

looked as though they just weren't going to

make it. They began to lose altitude at the

rate of 600 feet a minute. Their

Skipper,however, soon found a green flat

area. He led his planes over it, caught the

warm updrafts he was hoping to find there

and rode them over the passes with less

than ten feet to spare. That's not very

much leeway when you're sitting on top of a ton torpedo that has plenty of whang in its

warhead.

When they finally did get over and were pummeling ships and land installations at Lac and

Salamaua, Gayler was on his way down in a strafing dive when, out of the corner of his eye,

he spotted a Jap seaplane, He nosed up just long enough to center a burst and send the

Jap down in flames. Then he continued his dive. This was a rather deft bit of snapshooting.

Another time a Zero was trying to tease Gayler into a trap. Zeros are very light and can

climb faster than 4000 feet a minute. They try to get you to follow them up. If you do, they

climb out of your range, roll over when you are far below and come tobogganing back at

you when you're hanging on your prop, a "duck soup" target.

But Gayler wasn't tricked. He anticipated the pull-up and gave the Jap a burst just as he

began to climb. He didn't. He burned instead. Gayler pulled another "quick draw" when II

swarm of Zeros had him ducking in and out of a cloud. Every time he poked his nose out,

they were waiting for him.

Back in he went.

"I came out one side'," he explains, "and saw a Jappie below me. He saw me and made that

instinctive pull-up right in front of my guns. I let him have burst. He burned, too."

On the way back to his carrier Gayler shot down two more Zeros. Just to clear his guns

before landing. These two brought his total to eight clean kills. Every marksman in America,

every shooter who knows the future of our country depends on our ability to shoot straight

as individuals—whether we have in our hands a six pound sub-machine gun or a ten

thousand pound flying automatic—will find in the wording of Jim Thach's Distinguished

Service Medal citation, O"cial America's awakening to the priceless value of shooting

"know how".

"For exceptionally meritorious service to the Government of the United States as

Commander of a carrier Fighting Squadron during the first six months of the war. The

remarkable quality of leadership displayed by Lieutenant Commander Thach was

exemplified in the through and comprehensive training of his pilots in both their brilliant

combat tactics and excellent gunnery. The resultant high state of combat e"ciency

attained by his squadron enabled it to play a decisive and major part in the destruction of

nineteen of the twenty enemy Japanese bombers which attacked an aircraft carrier on

February 20, 1942. And to make an essential contribution to the success of the air attack

on Salumaua and Lae. New Guinea on March 10, 1942. The e!ectiveness of his unique

system of fighting plane combat teams, evolved from a detailed study of action reports of

the Coral Sea Battle and taught not only to his pilots but to all of the fighting squadrons in

the Hawaiian area, was demonstrated north of Midway Island on June 4, 1942. In this

engagement, Lieutenant Commander Thach led a four plane division of fighter planes from

his squadron against twenty enemy Zero fighters during the successful attacks by our

carrier-based planes against enemy fighters and destroyed six enemy fighters and

repulsed the others with the loss of only one of his four planes."

 

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Thanks to Marcus

03 Oct 2009 The Battle of Kamdesh – Lest we forget outnumbered 6-1 in highly indefensible terrain.

One of the highest number of decorations for Valor in the entire Afghanistan conflict including 2 MOH's

Battle of Kamdesh: Vastly Outnumbered, US Army Troops Defeated Over 300 Taliban Insurgents (warhistoryonline.com)

 

Romesha and Carter received the Medal of Honor for their courage, bravery and leadership during the Battle of Kamdesh. Additionally, 27 Purple Hearts, nine Silver Stars, 37 Army Commendation Medals with "V" and 21 Bronze Stars were presented to others who fought. The Silver Stars awarded to Bundermann and Gallegos (the latter posthumously) were upgraded to Distinguished Service Crosses.

 

Battle of Kamdesh: Vastly Outnumbered, US Army Troops Defeated Over 300 Taliban Insurgents (warhistoryonline.com)

 

R/H.

 

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